Discussion:
OW docs doesn't build on Windows 7, 64-bit
(too old to reply)
Leif Ekblad
2011-07-01 20:37:52 UTC
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Windows 7 shows an error box containing this:

From: c:\ow\openwatcom\bld\browser\nt386

Caption: 16-bit program not supported
Faulty program: c:\ow\openwatcom\docs\gml\dos\wglm.exe

The main question is why a DOS program is used to build the documents on
the Win32 platform?

Leif Ekblad
Frank Beythien
2011-07-01 20:43:55 UTC
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Post by Leif Ekblad
From: c:\ow\openwatcom\bld\browser\nt386
Caption: 16-bit program not supported
Faulty program: c:\ow\openwatcom\docs\gml\dos\wglm.exe
The main question is why a DOS program is used to build the documents on
the Win32 platform?
Leif Ekblad
Quite simple, for wgml.exe there only exist binaries for OS/2 and DOS.
The sourcecode is lost. We are recreating wgml, but it is far from being
usable for the documentation. Help is welcome.

CU/2
Frank
J
2012-11-01 18:32:14 UTC
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On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:43:55 -0700, Frank Beythien
Post by Frank Beythien
Post by Leif Ekblad
From: c:\ow\openwatcom\bld\browser\nt386
Caption: 16-bit program not supported
Faulty program: c:\ow\openwatcom\docs\gml\dos\wglm.exe
The main question is why a DOS program is used to build the documents on
the Win32 platform?
Leif Ekblad
Quite simple, for wgml.exe there only exist binaries for OS/2 and DOS.
The sourcecode is lost. We are recreating wgml, but it is far from being
usable for the documentation. Help is welcome.
was there an option to just skip building the docs?
Post by Frank Beythien
CU/2
Frank
--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Frank Beythien
2012-11-01 20:55:31 UTC
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Post by J
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:43:55 -0700, Frank Beythien
Post by Frank Beythien
Post by Leif Ekblad
From: c:\ow\openwatcom\bld\browser\nt386
Caption: 16-bit program not supported
Faulty program: c:\ow\openwatcom\docs\gml\dos\wglm.exe
The main question is why a DOS program is used to build the documents on
the Win32 platform?
Leif Ekblad
Quite simple, for wgml.exe there only exist binaries for OS/2 and DOS.
The sourcecode is lost. We are recreating wgml, but it is far from
being usable for the documentation. Help is welcome.
was there an option to just skip building the docs?
In setvars.* set/export DOC_BUILD=0

CU/2
Frank
Marty Stanquist
2012-11-01 21:22:15 UTC
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We still have dependencies in some of the modules, like the IDE and Browser,
that require wgml to generate C header files for creating the on-line help
files. These header files are generated at the end of the build after most
of the executable files have been built. DOC_BUILD=0 allows the build to
proceed to this point but does not prevent the build from stopping (on 64
bit systems) since the on-line help files are an unavoidable dependency in
the affected modules. Documentation is currently optional but on-line help
is not.

Marty
Post by J
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:43:55 -0700, Frank Beythien
Post by Frank Beythien
Post by Leif Ekblad
From: c:\ow\openwatcom\bld\browser\nt386
Caption: 16-bit program not supported
Faulty program: c:\ow\openwatcom\docs\gml\dos\wglm.exe
The main question is why a DOS program is used to build the documents on
the Win32 platform?
Leif Ekblad
Quite simple, for wgml.exe there only exist binaries for OS/2 and DOS.
The sourcecode is lost. We are recreating wgml, but it is far from
being usable for the documentation. Help is welcome.
was there an option to just skip building the docs?
In setvars.* set/export DOC_BUILD=0

CU/2
Frank
Paul S. Person
2012-11-02 16:55:46 UTC
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On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:22:15 -0500, "Marty Stanquist"
Post by Marty Stanquist
We still have dependencies in some of the modules, like the IDE and Browser,
that require wgml to generate C header files for creating the on-line help
files. These header files are generated at the end of the build after most
of the executable files have been built. DOC_BUILD=0 allows the build to
proceed to this point but does not prevent the build from stopping (on 64
bit systems) since the on-line help files are an unavoidable dependency in
the affected modules. Documentation is currently optional but on-line help
is not.
Unfortunately correct.

Some have, IIRC, reported success in using DOSBox or equivalent.

I wouldn't recommend it for the docs themselves, necessarily, but for
the on-line help files, it might be necessary.

Or the build system could be made to not create the affected on-line
help files if documentation is not to be built. Well, theoretically,
at least.

IIRC, I decided to start working on wgml when I realized that,
eventually, everyone would be using 64-bit OSes on 64-bit computers
that did not support 16-bit programs. Frank, IIRC, had already started
working on wgml.

Back then, the urgency was not there, as most were using 32-bit
systems. Now, of course, it is becoming much more urgent.
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."
Marty Stanquist
2012-11-02 17:57:45 UTC
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I think we have 3 options: Plan A is to complete and test wgml. Plan B is to
include prebuilt C headers for the on-line help files. Plan C is to modify
the build to make on-line help optional. Since most of the executable files
do get built, I'd prefer to proceed with plan A for now, but this is of
course up to the group.

Marty

"Paul S. Person" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:22:15 -0500, "Marty Stanquist"
Post by Marty Stanquist
We still have dependencies in some of the modules, like the IDE and Browser,
that require wgml to generate C header files for creating the on-line help
files. These header files are generated at the end of the build after most
of the executable files have been built. DOC_BUILD=0 allows the build to
proceed to this point but does not prevent the build from stopping (on 64
bit systems) since the on-line help files are an unavoidable dependency in
the affected modules. Documentation is currently optional but on-line help
is not.
Unfortunately correct.

Some have, IIRC, reported success in using DOSBox or equivalent.

I wouldn't recommend it for the docs themselves, necessarily, but for
the on-line help files, it might be necessary.

Or the build system could be made to not create the affected on-line
help files if documentation is not to be built. Well, theoretically,
at least.

IIRC, I decided to start working on wgml when I realized that,
eventually, everyone would be using 64-bit OSes on 64-bit computers
that did not support 16-bit programs. Frank, IIRC, had already started
working on wgml.

Back then, the urgency was not there, as most were using 32-bit
systems. Now, of course, it is becoming much more urgent.
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."
Paul S. Person
2012-11-03 17:47:09 UTC
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On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 12:57:45 -0500, "Marty Stanquist"
Post by Marty Stanquist
I think we have 3 options: Plan A is to complete and test wgml. Plan B is to
include prebuilt C headers for the on-line help files. Plan C is to modify
the build to make on-line help optional. Since most of the executable files
do get built, I'd prefer to proceed with plan A for now, but this is of
course up to the group.
These aren't actually mutually exclusive, of course; that is, B or C
could be done (by some 64-bit user who is desperate enough) while A
continues on to provide an actual solution. But you knew that.
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."
E. S. Fabian
2012-11-04 18:16:36 UTC
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For several days now the OW mail server was either totally inaccessible, or
required many attempts to download posted messages. Outlook Express
indicates that there are 4 messages in the contributors group I have not
read; I could access the title of only one of them (Mary Standquist, "Re: OW
docs don't build on Windows 7, 64-bit", dated 2012-11-01 @ 16:36 US EDT). 3
later posts are reported, but without header information.
--
Steve Fabian
Marty Stanquist
2012-11-05 02:14:41 UTC
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I believe this is Tropical Storm Sandy related. Power outages in the
northeastern US are disrupting internet traffic, especially to Canada and
Europe. Our server is located in California. If you're having trouble
following a particular thread, or want to post to a thread, let me know.
I'll try to email you the posts or post a reply for you. I'm hoping that
things will get better this coming week. Long term, however, we'll want to
do some more work with our European server mirror to allow it to provide
newsgroup, website, and Perforce access in the case of another global
disconnect. I'll be talking about this effort a bit later. As for now, the
following alternatives are available:

BZ2: http://www.openwatcom.org/ftp/source/ow_daily.tar.bz2 (the daily
Perforce tarball)
GIT: https://github.com/open-watcom/owp4v1copy.git (Jiri Malak's OW fork,
an independent project)
SVN: http://svn.cmeerw.net/openwatcom (Christof Meerwald's daily Perforce
mirror)

Give these a try if you're unable to access the website. Let me know if it
doesn't work out.

Marty

"E. S. Fabian" wrote in message news:k76bh9$6g4$***@www.openwatcom.org...

For several days now the OW mail server was either totally inaccessible, or
required many attempts to download posted messages. Outlook Express
indicates that there are 4 messages in the contributors group I have not
read; I could access the title of only one of them (Mary Stanquist, "Re: OW
docs don't build on Windows 7, 64-bit", dated 2012-11-01 @ 16:36 US EDT). 3
later posts are reported, but without header information.
--
Steve Fabian
Marty Stanquist
2012-11-05 02:22:39 UTC
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You can email me at: martys1ow at att dot net.

Marty

"Marty Stanquist" wrote in message news:k777f9$2a0$***@www.openwatcom.org...

I believe this is Tropical Storm Sandy related. Power outages in the
northeastern US are disrupting internet traffic, especially to Canada and
Europe. Our server is located in California. If you're having trouble
following a particular thread, or want to post to a thread, let me know.
I'll try to email you the posts or post a reply for you. I'm hoping that
things will get better this coming week. Long term, however, we'll want to
do some more work with our European server mirror to allow it to provide
newsgroup, website, and Perforce access in the case of another global
disconnect. I'll be talking about this effort a bit later. As for now, the
following alternatives are available:

BZ2: http://www.openwatcom.org/ftp/source/ow_daily.tar.bz2 (the daily
Perforce tarball)
GIT: https://github.com/open-watcom/owp4v1copy.git (Jiri Malak's OW fork,
an independent project)
SVN: http://svn.cmeerw.net/openwatcom (Christof Meerwald's daily Perforce
mirror)

Give these a try if you're unable to access the website. Let me know if it
doesn't work out.

Marty

"E. S. Fabian" wrote in message news:k76bh9$6g4$***@www.openwatcom.org...

For several days now the OW mail server was either totally inaccessible, or
required many attempts to download posted messages. Outlook Express
indicates that there are 4 messages in the contributors group I have not
read; I could access the title of only one of them (Mary Stanquist, "Re: OW
docs don't build on Windows 7, 64-bit", dated 2012-11-01 @ 16:36 US EDT). 3
later posts are reported, but without header information.
--
Steve Fabian
Steve Fabian
2012-11-05 20:12:52 UTC
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Marty Stanquist wrote:
| I believe this is Tropical Storm Sandy related. Power outages in the
| northeastern US are disrupting internet traffic, especially to Canada
| and Europe. Our server is located in California.

I am in the NE USA, near Baltimore. My ISP is T-Mobile, through a "hotspot"
device, which provides roughly a quarter of the speed of cable. Accessing a
server which had lost power due to Sandy (since its power was restored), as
well as many other servers, showed no such issues, only OW has this problem.
Outlook Express comes up with a periodic message that the server
openwatcom.org is not responding (wait or stop), or it has disconnected,
even while I was preparing this response. Since no other server I access has
this issue, I suspect the OW server is the culprit, not the storm.

| If you're having
| trouble following a particular thread, or want to post to a thread,
| let me know. I'll try to email you the posts or post a reply for you.

Since I read all messages on all of the OW fora, your kind offer would be an
unreasonable burden on you. I appreciate the offer, but it is not in the
group's best interest to dilute your effort.

BTW, almost all users in the OW NGs interleave their responses with the
original posts to make it easier to follow their arguments, and also to copy
from the OP only what is relevant to the answer.
--
Steve
Marty Stanquist
2012-11-06 14:52:07 UTC
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It sounds like the server may need to be reset. I'll research this, then
post an advisory.

Marty

"Steve Fabian" wrote in message news:k79si3$g45$***@www.openwatcom.org...

Marty Stanquist wrote:
| I believe this is Tropical Storm Sandy related. Power outages in the
| northeastern US are disrupting internet traffic, especially to Canada
| and Europe. Our server is located in California.

I am in the NE USA, near Baltimore. My ISP is T-Mobile, through a "hotspot"
device, which provides roughly a quarter of the speed of cable. Accessing a
server which had lost power due to Sandy (since its power was restored), as
well as many other servers, showed no such issues, only OW has this problem.
Outlook Express comes up with a periodic message that the server
openwatcom.org is not responding (wait or stop), or it has disconnected,
even while I was preparing this response. Since no other server I access has
this issue, I suspect the OW server is the culprit, not the storm.

| If you're having
| trouble following a particular thread, or want to post to a thread,
| let me know. I'll try to email you the posts or post a reply for you.

Since I read all messages on all of the OW fora, your kind offer would be an
unreasonable burden on you. I appreciate the offer, but it is not in the
group's best interest to dilute your effort.

BTW, almost all users in the OW NGs interleave their responses with the
original posts to make it easier to follow their arguments, and also to copy
from the OP only what is relevant to the answer.
--
Steve
Steve Fabian
2012-11-06 20:07:57 UTC
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Raw Message
Marty Stanquist wrote:
| It sounds like the server may need to be reset. I'll research this,
| then post an advisory.

All seems to be well with the server now.
--
Steve
Christof Meerwald
2012-11-06 20:40:31 UTC
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Post by Steve Fabian
I am in the NE USA, near Baltimore. My ISP is T-Mobile, through a "hotspot"
device, which provides roughly a quarter of the speed of cable. Accessing a
server which had lost power due to Sandy (since its power was restored), as
well as many other servers, showed no such issues, only OW has this problem.
Outlook Express comes up with a periodic message that the server
openwatcom.org is not responding (wait or stop), or it has disconnected,
even while I was preparing this response. Since no other server I access has
this issue, I suspect the OW server is the culprit, not the storm.
I am not seeing any connectivity issues with the Open Watcom server.
Is the Open Watcom web site also unresponsive for you or is it just
the news server that appears to be unresponsive? (your ISP could be
trying to throttle NNTP).

A few things to try:

The openwatcom.* newsgroups are also available (read only) from
textnews.cambrium.nl - could you try adding that server and reading
the openwatcom newsgroups via that server? Are you seeing similar
connectivity problems with that server?

There are also some other servers offering access to to the openwatcom
newsgroups (read and post after registration). One of them is
http://www.eternal-september.org - you could sign up for a free
account on that server and access the newsgroups via that server.


Christof
--
http://cmeerw.org sip:cmeerw at cmeerw.org
mailto:cmeerw at cmeerw.org xmpp:cmeerw at cmeerw.org
Frank Beythien
2012-11-06 20:46:01 UTC
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Post by Christof Meerwald
Post by Steve Fabian
I am in the NE USA, near Baltimore. My ISP is T-Mobile, through a "hotspot"
device, which provides roughly a quarter of the speed of cable. Accessing a
server which had lost power due to Sandy (since its power was restored), as
well as many other servers, showed no such issues, only OW has this problem.
Outlook Express comes up with a periodic message that the server
openwatcom.org is not responding (wait or stop), or it has disconnected,
even while I was preparing this response. Since no other server I access has
this issue, I suspect the OW server is the culprit, not the storm.
I am not seeing any connectivity issues with the Open Watcom server.
Is the Open Watcom web site also unresponsive for you or is it just
the news server that appears to be unresponsive? (your ISP could be
trying to throttle NNTP).
Since some time today the connections (news, www, perforce) to
*.openwatcom.org seem to be back to normal speed.

Frank

David Golub
2011-07-02 00:53:21 UTC
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Leif,

The reason you're experiencing this is that it's not possible to run a
16-bit program on a 64-bit operating system. (I presume that you're
using the 64-bit version of Windows 7.) If you download the files for
Windows XP Mode from Microsoft's web site and run the build inside
Windows XP Mode, it should work even if your host operating is 64-bit
because Windows XP Mode emulates the 32-bit version of Windows XP.

David Golub
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
2011-07-02 14:36:28 UTC
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Post by David Golub
Leif,
The reason you're experiencing this is that it's not possible to run a
16-bit program on a 64-bit operating system. (I presume that you're
using the 64-bit version of Windows 7.) If you download the files for
Windows XP Mode from Microsoft's web site and run the build inside
Windows XP Mode, it should work even if your host operating is 64-bit
because Windows XP Mode emulates the 32-bit version of Windows XP.
David Golub
Only if he has Win 7 Professional or Ultimate, the XP mode does not work
with Starter, Home or Home Premium
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
2011-07-02 15:06:40 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by David Golub
Leif,
The reason you're experiencing this is that it's not possible to run a
16-bit program on a 64-bit operating system. (I presume that you're
using the 64-bit version of Windows 7.) If you download the files for
Windows XP Mode from Microsoft's web site and run the build inside
Windows XP Mode, it should work even if your host operating is 64-bit
because Windows XP Mode emulates the 32-bit version of Windows XP.
David Golub
An alternative for those that do not have the XP mode is to download an
older VPC from MS, VPC 2004 contains a DOS helper app/driver that works
with VPC 2007
Graeme Geldenhuys
2011-07-06 06:37:08 UTC
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Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
An alternative for those that do not have the XP mode is to download an
older VPC from MS, VPC 2004 contains a DOS helper app/driver that works
with VPC 2007
Wouldn't something like ReactOS work too? It's a 32-bit clone (open
source implementation) of Windows. Quite a lot of programs already run
under it without problems (or maybe some minor issues).


http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html


What's really neat is the ISO download is just 36MB and no Microsoft
license is required. :)


Regards,
- Graeme -
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
2011-07-06 08:44:09 UTC
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Post by Graeme Geldenhuys
Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
An alternative for those that do not have the XP mode is to download an
older VPC from MS, VPC 2004 contains a DOS helper app/driver that works
with VPC 2007
Wouldn't something like ReactOS work too? It's a 32-bit clone (open
source implementation) of Windows. Quite a lot of programs already run
under it without problems (or maybe some minor issues).
http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html
What's really neat is the ISO download is just 36MB and no Microsoft
license is required. :)
Yes of course and XP/W2K/Win95 and so on, or at the least I think so,
have not tried running the 16 bit tools under reactos, but slightly less
convinient than having a DOS VB that has folder sharing but there are no
reactos extensions available for any VM as far as I know which means
data sharing slightly more convulsed
Graeme Geldenhuys
2011-07-06 12:47:15 UTC
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Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
reactos extensions available for any VM as far as I know which means
data sharing slightly more convulsed
So many people forget about the basics of networking. :-) Simply use
FTP! It works fine here, and I can share any data between my ReactOS VM
and my host (or any other PC on a network).


Regards,
- Graeme -
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
Peter C. Chapin
2011-07-06 13:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Geldenhuys
So many people forget about the basics of networking. :-) Simply use
FTP! It works fine here, and I can share any data between my ReactOS VM
and my host (or any other PC on a network).
Does Open Watcom install on ReactOS? The last time I tried it the
installer hung. This was quite a few months ago.

Peter
Graeme Geldenhuys
2011-07-07 07:39:01 UTC
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Post by Peter C. Chapin
Does Open Watcom install on ReactOS? The last time I tried it the
installer hung. This was quite a few months ago.
I haven't tried... but I have seen products like Visual Studio,
OpenOffice etc run inside ReactOS. So things might be better now than
they were a year or so ago.


Regards,
- Graeme -
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
Marty Stanquist
2012-11-01 21:36:33 UTC
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I'll give ReactOS another look. It's been a while since I've worked with it.

Marty
Post by Peter C. Chapin
Does Open Watcom install on ReactOS? The last time I tried it the
installer hung. This was quite a few months ago.
I haven't tried... but I have seen products like Visual Studio,
OpenOffice etc run inside ReactOS. So things might be better now than
they were a year or so ago.


Regards,
- Graeme -
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
2011-07-06 23:27:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Geldenhuys
Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
reactos extensions available for any VM as far as I know which means
data sharing slightly more convulsed
So many people forget about the basics of networking. :-) Simply use
FTP! It works fine here, and I can share any data between my ReactOS VM
and my host (or any other PC on a network).
No it is not that, it is that the basic versions of Windows Vista and W7
(Starter/Basic/Home etc) that quite a large portion of people are using
as hosts lack advanced networking UI's that are only shipped with the
Business and Ultimate versions of windows, not a problem in daily usage
but means that some tasks can only be performed by editing the registry
and/or networking files and the reason you will find thousands of people
on the net with homegroup problems that they cannot fix, there is simply
no mechanism in their version of windows to fix them .... the Homegroup
UI is only shipped with Business and Ultimate ...

This means that it is quite common for people to get problem free
networking from WM client to the internet but not to the host and no
tools to fix it, mainly with Vbox and VPC, I have not used the other
Vm's for quite a while this may be less of a problem there, so it is
just that for a large number of people folder sharing is not only an
easier mechanism to set up but a much more robust one as well
Graeme Geldenhuys
2011-07-07 07:44:16 UTC
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Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
and/or networking files and the reason you will find thousands of people
on the net with homegroup problems that they cannot fix, there is simply
no mechanism in their version of windows to fix them ....
The joys of Microsoft products! :-) Give me Linux [maybe even Mac OS X]
any time of day. I can maintain those systems even without a GUI, plus I
have no OS feature restrictions because of the "distro" [read Windows
version] I'm running.

Anyway, I just thought I would mention ReactOS as an option for those
that don't have Microsoft Windows.

Regards,
- Graeme -
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
2011-07-08 04:46:56 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Graeme Geldenhuys
Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
and/or networking files and the reason you will find thousands of people
on the net with homegroup problems that they cannot fix, there is simply
no mechanism in their version of windows to fix them ....
The joys of Microsoft products! :-) Give me Linux [maybe even Mac OS X]
any time of day. I can maintain those systems even without a GUI, plus I
have no OS feature restrictions because of the "distro" [read Windows
version] I'm running.
Yeah, but try loading a huge SQL database file on linux via PHP and it
will not work but does on Windows, on OS/2 it does work on the PHP
version derived from the Windows port but not on the one derived from
the linux port .... go figure

That sort of time and incompatibility issues with itself make Linux far
to costly in the long run, I stopped renting Linux servers for that
reason earlier this year after having used it since the mid 90's and was
quite surprised to find that the W2008 servers I rent from the same
company were considerably faster as Web servers as well, and cost the
same .... the company says that the costs of buying and maintaining
Redhat are actually higher than buying 2008 licenses and even free
alternatives like centos end up costing close to the same due to the
extra work involved

The MACH kernel on OSX was bloated overkill on NeXTstep and is getting
out of hand on OSX, a friend writes music applications, on the same Mac
pro hardware and using the same complier he gets a 15%+ increased
performance under W7 than 10.6 and W7 is not exactly a lightweight

But the main problem with the unices is lack of support and even open
hostility to older or foreign systems, data sets and object code, and
the reason why people should show more support and love for openwatcom,
it is one of the few development systems out there goes out of its way
not to be incompatible nor to discourage anything, specific exclusions
due to "philosophical" issues like the Dosbox one mentioned earlier in
the thread are something I have not seen in the OpenWatcom world.

My W7 64 bit version runs code developed for Windows 386 in the 80's the
32 bit version even runs programs developed for Win 2.1, the mac 10.6
will not run some OSX software I bought in 2009 ... None of my BSD/linux
code from 1999 is even close to compiling with modern systems and the
executables you can forget about .. there are 5 macs in this room where
I am writing this, just for hardware and software compatibility reason
but only 2 windows PC's

VM's are nice but only if they continue to support older systems, the W7
version of VPC only really supports XP and newer although you can coax
it to accept older extensions and even emulate floppy drives if you know
how to use a text editor, on the linux side all the available options
are slowly but surely dropping OS/2 support and never supported DOS so
they are only usable really as tools to run modern software with, but I
already have the capability to run modern software ....

For me, all that that represents cost in either time or money to re-do
something I have already spent lots of time and ungodly amounts of money
on. 25 years ago I had to regularly take my new car in for maintenance,
but my old Apple II software ran fine on the Mac via an emulator ...
today the 8 year old Toyota has only needed 3 oil changes and 1 new set
of tires during its entire lifetime, my software from 2009 however needs
"maintainance" just to keep working never mind new features.
Graeme Geldenhuys
2011-07-12 09:19:51 UTC
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Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
Yeah, but try loading a huge SQL database file on linux via PHP and it
will not work but does on Windows, on OS/2 it does work on the PHP
That seems to be a PHP specific issue, so take it up with them. I access
1-4GB Firebird and MS-SQL Server databases without problems using
software developed with the Free Pascal Compiler under Linux, FreeBSD,
Windows and Mac OS X.

As for the rest of you comments. I really don't want to get into another
pissing contest between OSes. Use the OS that works for you -
everybody's mileage my vary.


Regards,
- Graeme -
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
2011-07-13 05:07:58 UTC
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Post by Graeme Geldenhuys
Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
Yeah, but try loading a huge SQL database file on linux via PHP and it
will not work but does on Windows, on OS/2 it does work on the PHP
Nope ... lib issue ... something that should be a priority fix ...
Post by Graeme Geldenhuys
As for the rest of you comments. I really don't want to get into another
pissing contest between OSes. Use the OS that works for you -
everybody's mileage my vary.
eh ... you started whining about other OS's not me ...

There is no pissing contest, I made a few observations of the increasing
(and to me costly, since I had heavily invested in those systems)
isolationism of modern day unices and open source software where not
working with alien systems and data has become a strange sort of
objective almost to a point of pride, witness the declarations from the
GNU and similar orgs were they boast of their software and licenses
incomparability with the rest of the world or Mozilla's refusal to
display punicode on "security" grounds but allow similar systems for
Chinese and Cyrillic, it is not a question of working for me but working
at all

10 years ago the statement "I prefer to use Internet Explorer because it
is more standards compliant than the open source alternatives" would
have considered some sort of insane rambling, today that sentence is,
bizarrely enough, factually true.

People really need to learn to differentiate between observations and
opinions
Kevin G. Rhoads
2011-07-14 13:18:37 UTC
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Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
My W7 64 bit version runs code developed for Windows 386 in the 80's the
32 bit version even runs programs developed for Win 2.1, the mac 10.6
will not run some OSX software I bought in 2009 ... None of my BSD/linux
code from 1999 is even close to compiling with modern systems and the
executables you can forget about .. there are 5 macs in this room where
I am writing this, just for hardware and software compatibility reason
but only 2 windows PC's
Running 32bit XP, there are a few programs from DOS 1.x days I still use
fairly often -- no problem.
Kevin G. Rhoads
2011-07-14 13:21:03 UTC
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Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
VM's are nice but only if they continue to support older systems, the W7
version of VPC only really supports XP and newer although you can coax
it to accept older extensions and even emulate floppy drives if you know
how to use a text editor
MS VPC 2007 does a fairly nice job, so long as the processor is at least
dual core. I have not managed to get it to boot DOS 1.0 or DOS 1.1, but
from 2.0 on, no problem.
Olafur Gunnlaugsson
2011-07-23 21:35:46 UTC
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Post by Kevin G. Rhoads
Post by Olafur Gunnlaugsson
VM's are nice but only if they continue to support older systems, the W7
version of VPC only really supports XP and newer although you can coax
it to accept older extensions and even emulate floppy drives if you know
how to use a text editor
MS VPC 2007 does a fairly nice job, so long as the processor is at least
dual core. I have not managed to get it to boot DOS 1.0 or DOS 1.1, but
from 2.0 on, no problem.
Gone seriously off topic, but I am trying to rack my brains, was there
any notable software out there that required a dos version pre 3.3 ?

Because of hardware compatibility issues I never ran anything less than
DOS 3.3 .....
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