Discussion:
Windowed debugger - where to set/change font (OS/2)
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Andi.B
2017-11-21 20:17:03 UTC
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IIRC Matt told me some time ago that the windowed debugger wdw has some code to change the
used fonts. But for the OS/2 version the needed procedures are all dummy.

I've just started to compile OW by myself. I can build wv. Would be happy if someone give
me some hints to find the sources for this font handling stuff and where to start to make
wv/wdw usable on current displays (3840x1200). Mean System VIO 5 instead the big ugly
system 10 font f.i.

Thanks, Andi
Frank Beythien
2017-11-22 12:34:40 UTC
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Post by Andi.B
IIRC Matt told me some time ago that the windowed debugger wdw has some
code to change the used fonts. But for the OS/2 version the needed
procedures are all dummy.
I've just started to compile OW by myself. I can build wv. Would be
happy if someone give me some hints to find the sources for this font
handling stuff and where to start to make wv/wdw usable on current
displays (3840x1200). Mean System VIO 5 instead the big ugly system 10
font f.i.
Hi Andi,

lucky guy with 4k monitor -:)

In bld\wv\master.mif line 590 is an entry for fonts:

pmfont=-font=10.Helv

This need a rebuild of wd.exe of course.

Not sure whether this will help. Otherwise you could run the text
version wd.exe /lines=50 /cols=120 or so.

CU/2
Frank
Andi.B
2017-11-23 20:15:55 UTC
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Hi Frank,
Post by Frank Beythien
Post by Andi.B
IIRC Matt told me some time ago that the windowed debugger wdw has some
code to change the used fonts. But for the OS/2 version the needed
procedures are all dummy.
I've just started to compile OW by myself. I can build wv. Would be
happy if someone give me some hints to find the sources for this font
handling stuff and where to start to make wv/wdw usable on current
displays (3840x1200). Mean System VIO 5 instead the big ugly system 10
font f.i.
Hi Andi,
lucky guy with 4k monitor -:)
Not 4k. Two standard 24" with 1920x1200 each. If snap finally would allow multi head and
4k displays maybe I buy one. But I fear there is still some time to save money for that.
Post by Frank Beythien
pmfont=-font=10.Helv
Thanks. Changing to pmfont=-font="5.System VIO" changes the fonts of wd popup windows like
the 'File Open' or 'Options' dialog. Unfortunately not the interior of Source, Assembly or
CPU registers.
Post by Frank Beythien
This need a rebuild of wd.exe of course.
Not sure whether this will help. Otherwise you could run the text
version wd.exe /lines=50 /cols=120 or so.
Argh. One reason why I switched from DOS to OS/2 some 25 years ago was the gui. About 30
years ago (time flies) I was impressed by codeview and the like. But today I enjoy sizable
graphic windows ;-)

Regards, Andi
Post by Frank Beythien
CU/2
Frank
Paul S. Person
2017-11-25 18:01:01 UTC
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Post by Andi.B
Not 4k. Two standard 24" with 1920x1200 each. If snap finally would allow multi head and
4k displays maybe I buy one. But I fear there is still some time to save money for that.
Argh. One reason why I switched from DOS to OS/2 some 25 years ago was the gui. About 30
years ago (time flies) I was impressed by codeview and the like. But today I enjoy sizable
graphic windows ;-)
1. In Windows, the wdw, "Change Font" launches a font-selector window
which is subtly different from the wdw windows. It may be
system-provided.
2. The OS/2 API, IIRC from my reading (I never got around to using
it), is quite similar to the Windows API. If you have the necessary
info, translating from Windows API to OS/2 API might be possible.
3. The OS/2 documentation used to be freely available on Hobbes;
perhaps it still is. At least, that is where I seem to remember I got
it. Both the 32-bit API docs and the 16-bit API docs for those APIs
that were still, at that time, 16-bit (IIRC: mouse, keyboard, maybe a
few others).
4. I don't suppose OS/2 has, say, a screen magnifier available that
might make the wdw window (and its fonts) /larger/?
5. Can you set different resolutions for each monitor? If so, you
could set the monitor you use for wdw to a /lower resolution/.

I know, I know, everybody wants to use the highest resolution
possible. Suggesting a lower resolution is ... heresy.

However, IIRC, Windows and OS/2 respond to changes in resolution in
two different ways:
1) Windows rescales everything so that the desktop is the same as it
was before, just with more detail available for images and videos
because of the higher resolution. It may also switch the pixel size
used for icons which provide multiple pixel sizes.
2) OS/2 rescales pretty much nothing, allowing you to add new items to
the desktop without overlapping, but reducing the original objects in
size.
If this is true, reducing the resolution should increase the size of
wdw and all its parts, including the fonts. With no pixellation.
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."
Andi.B
2017-11-26 13:16:55 UTC
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Hi Paul,
Post by Paul S. Person
Post by Andi.B
Not 4k. Two standard 24" with 1920x1200 each. If snap finally would allow multi head and
4k displays maybe I buy one. But I fear there is still some time to save money for that.
Argh. One reason why I switched from DOS to OS/2 some 25 years ago was the gui. About 30
years ago (time flies) I was impressed by codeview and the like. But today I enjoy sizable
graphic windows ;-)
1. In Windows, the wdw, "Change Font" launches a font-selector window
which is subtly different from the wdw windows. It may be
system-provided.
This menu entry is disabled in the OS/2 version. Guess for good reasons. Probably not
implemented in the OS/2 code path. I guess the code is somewhere in the commonui files.
But I'm still not very familiar with all this code. Have to read the wiki...
Post by Paul S. Person
2. The OS/2 API, IIRC from my reading (I never got around to using
it), is quite similar to the Windows API. If you have the necessary
info, translating from Windows API to OS/2 API might be possible.
3. The OS/2 documentation used to be freely available on Hobbes;
perhaps it still is. At least, that is where I seem to remember I got
it. Both the 32-bit API docs and the 16-bit API docs for those APIs
that were still, at that time, 16-bit (IIRC: mouse, keyboard, maybe a
few others).
I think all the necessary OS/2 documentation is in the OS/2 toolkit (os2tk45). When I find
the appropriate sources and find enough time ;-) I think I could add the necessary code.
But given the very limited time I fear I can make a quick hack at most.
Post by Paul S. Person
4. I don't suppose OS/2 has, say, a screen magnifier available that
might make the wdw window (and its fonts) /larger/?
AFAIK SNAP video driver does have something like that. But I need it the other way - the
usual OS/2 system font is very big on middle to higher resolution TFT monitors (1400 x XX
and up). Each character wastes so much space and looks ugly to me. There are ways to
change the 'standard system' font. But TTBOMK they all have drawbacks. SNAP offers
additional system wide font/DPI settings. But as above it's not easy to find a good
setting for all different kind of programs and system menus. In case someone is interested
at the end of this post are the comments in my config.sys about that. In a perfect world
every OS/2 application should honor the usual drag & drop font changing method. But far to
many programmers saved the time to implement this feature :-(
Post by Paul S. Person
5. Can you set different resolutions for each monitor? If so, you
could set the monitor you use for wdw to a /lower resolution/.
Unfortunately a feature no OS/2 graphic driver supports. But that reminds me to another
work around - firing up VBOX and run wdw on the WIN client inside. But although I want to
remotely debug another machine with wdw I fear the network setup 'VBOX client - OS/2 host
- another OS/2 MUT' will add another pile of problems....
Post by Paul S. Person
I know, I know, everybody wants to use the highest resolution
possible. Suggesting a lower resolution is ... heresy.
You name it ;-)

I'm used to work with at least 2 big monitors as I need a lot of application windows
concurrently. I would like to use 2 monitors (1920x1200) only for the editor windows If I
could. And if we had graphic drivers for higher resolution monitors I'm sure I'll find
ways of working to fill them all with important stuff :-) Of course personal taste.
Post by Paul S. Person
However, IIRC, Windows and OS/2 respond to changes in resolution in
1) Windows rescales everything so that the desktop is the same as it
was before, just with more detail available for images and videos
because of the higher resolution. It may also switch the pixel size
used for icons which provide multiple pixel sizes.
2) OS/2 rescales pretty much nothing, allowing you to add new items to
the desktop without overlapping, but reducing the original objects in
size.
If this is true, reducing the resolution should increase the size of
wdw and all its parts, including the fonts. With no pixellation.
Changing resolution on OS/2 changes default fonts sizes this is true. There are also some
settings for DPI with further influence the whole appearance (fonts/dialog
sizes/boxes/...). So you're right, changing resolution would produce different look.

OS/2 is pretty good in preserving your desktop icons position even when changing
resolutions. Something windoze never could handle properly. Every time I ran into a
problem like 'win does not detect the second monitor' or changes resolution for other
reasons I'm so happy that this is not the case with my ancient OS. OS/2 scales the icons
x, y position which may lead to overlapping icons when switching from high resolution to
lower resolution. But if you switch back to the higher resolution all icons are in place
where they where before. This Win rearranging feature (I call it bug) reprogrammed most
Win users to let the OS sort the icons all the time. Cause sooner or later Win does it
anyway. I never understand why people let a machine rearrange their workspace. YMMV. But
I'm old school and still think my personal computer has to work the way I like it. Not
someone at Redmond decided in his very limited wisdom. On the other hand win has some
really cool features I miss on OS/2. One is changing resolution without reboot.

Sorry off topic.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts. As always there were some interesting things for me to
learn. At first I think I've to become more familiar with the open watcom source file
layout and where to find what. In the meantime I found some useful information on the wiki
pages. Thanks to the people who did the work. And thanks to all people who still support
this amazing piece of code base.

Regards, Andi


##########################################################
config.sys comments regarding default system font settings
REM ! 20061207 Fontsize=large, Fontdpi=120, usually small and 96dpi or large and 120dpi
(Snap readme), small und 120 -> Schrift etwas größer
REM ! WinOS2 Schrift in der \os2\mdos\winos2\system.ini [GRADD]
REM ! SET SDDFONTDPI=120 120 Ptime geht sich nicht aus 100 auch nicht 90 auch nicht, nur
120 und 96 gehen unter OS/2
REM ! SET SDDFONTSIZE=large ging lange zeit gut jetzt test mit medium, LARGE von Eugene (PMD)
REM ! SET SDDFONTSIZE=large
REM ! SET SDDFONTDPI=120
REM ! Versuch mit small und 96dpi und Warpsans setdeffont --> sehr kleine Schriften am
Desktop und auch in Menüs und Mozilla, Texte gehen sich trotzdem nicht aus -->
REM ! Versuch mit large und 96dpi und Warpsans --> kleine Schrift kommt anscheinend von
setdeffont Warpsans, mit large wird vs linke spalte riesig, ptime schlecht, rsj und pmd
auch nicht gut ->
REM ! Versuch mit setdeffont 10. Helv, large, 96dpi --> Controls passen jetzt, aber
Schrift noch immer klein -->
REM ! Versuch mit setdeffont 10. Helv, large, 120dpi --> geht ganz gut, controls passen
fast (rsj, pmd) oder gut (ptime, lucide), clipview große Schrift -->
REM ! Versuch mit setdeffont 8. Helv, large, 120dpi --> passt nicht mehr so gut (rsj, pmd,
ptime), lucide geht gerade noch, clipview okay
REM ! Versuch mit setdeffont 10. Helv, medium, 120dpi --> geht ganz gut, controls passen
fast (rsj, pmd) oder gut (ptime, lucide), clipview große Schrift -->
REM ! Versuch mit setdeffont 10. Helv, small, 120dpi --> geht ganz gut, controls passen
fast (rsj, pmd) oder gut (ptime, lucide), clipview große Schrift -->
REM ! small, medium, large dürfte nichts bringen
REM ! Versuch mit setdeffont 10. Syst Prop, SMALL, 120dpi --> alles gut nur clipview und
vs Schrift ziemlich groß
REM ! Versuch mit setdeffont 10. Syst Prop, large , 96dpi --> kleine Schrift auf WPS, aber
clipview und VS riesig
REM ! 20080808 versuch mit SMALL statt Medium (VAC4)
REM ! 20080813 damit sieht URE sch... aus -> wieder medium
SET SDDFONTSIZE=Medium
SET SDDFONTDPI=120
Paul S. Person
2017-11-26 17:39:13 UTC
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Post by Andi.B
Hi Paul,
Post by Paul S. Person
Post by Andi.B
Not 4k. Two standard 24" with 1920x1200 each. If snap finally would allow multi head and
4k displays maybe I buy one. But I fear there is still some time to save money for that.
Argh. One reason why I switched from DOS to OS/2 some 25 years ago was the gui. About 30
years ago (time flies) I was impressed by codeview and the like. But today I enjoy sizable
graphic windows ;-)
1. In Windows, the wdw, "Change Font" launches a font-selector window
which is subtly different from the wdw windows. It may be
system-provided.
This menu entry is disabled in the OS/2 version. Guess for good reasons. Probably not
implemented in the OS/2 code path. I guess the code is somewhere in the commonui files.
But I'm still not very familiar with all this code. Have to read the wiki...
You are right.

The problem is deeper than I thought.
Post by Andi.B
Post by Paul S. Person
2. The OS/2 API, IIRC from my reading (I never got around to using
it), is quite similar to the Windows API. If you have the necessary
info, translating from Windows API to OS/2 API might be possible.
3. The OS/2 documentation used to be freely available on Hobbes;
perhaps it still is. At least, that is where I seem to remember I got
it. Both the 32-bit API docs and the 16-bit API docs for those APIs
that were still, at that time, 16-bit (IIRC: mouse, keyboard, maybe a
few others).
I think all the necessary OS/2 documentation is in the OS/2 toolkit (os2tk45). When I find
the appropriate sources and find enough time ;-) I think I could add the necessary code.
But given the very limited time I fear I can make a quick hack at most.
Necessity is the mother of finding enough time.
Post by Andi.B
Post by Paul S. Person
4. I don't suppose OS/2 has, say, a screen magnifier available that
might make the wdw window (and its fonts) /larger/?
AFAIK SNAP video driver does have something like that. But I need it the other way - the
usual OS/2 system font is very big on middle to higher resolution TFT monitors (1400 x XX
and up).
OK, clearly, even if I remembered my experience correctly, it doesn't
apply as I thought. What can I say? Reality trumps memory!
Post by Andi.B
Post by Paul S. Person
5. Can you set different resolutions for each monitor? If so, you
could set the monitor you use for wdw to a /lower resolution/.
Unfortunately a feature no OS/2 graphic driver supports.
Come to think of it, my HP Envy doesn't either, possibly because the
displays are essentially the same (two good-sized Acers with minor
differences). I wasn't sure if OS/2 did the same.

Ironically, I discovered Friday that, if the displays are /different
enough/, my HP Pavillion /can/ do this. But this is a laptop and it
may be that /all/ laptops can do it.
Post by Andi.B
But that reminds me to another
work around - firing up VBOX and run wdw on the WIN client inside. But although I want to
remotely debug another machine with wdw I fear the network setup 'VBOX client - OS/2 host
- another OS/2 MUT' will add another pile of problems....
I seem to recall successfully debugging 16-bit DOS apps in an MDOS box
using wdw in OS/2, so it isn't necessarily impossible ... but whether
it would work from 16-bit Windows to OS/2 is another question. IIRC,
Watcom for OS/2 required one or two helper programs to be loaded in
CONFIG.SYS to allow this, and Open Watcom no doubt does the same..
Post by Andi.B
Post by Paul S. Person
I know, I know, everybody wants to use the highest resolution
possible. Suggesting a lower resolution is ... heresy.
You name it ;-)
I'm used to work with at least 2 big monitors as I need a lot of application windows
concurrently. I would like to use 2 monitors (1920x1200) only for the editor windows If I
could. And if we had graphic drivers for higher resolution monitors I'm sure I'll find
ways of working to fill them all with important stuff :-) Of course personal taste.
<snip-a-bit>
Post by Andi.B
I'm old school and still think my personal computer has to work the way I like it.
I did that with XP and it was a losing battle as Microsoft did
everything it could to occupy every single byte on my hard drive.
Every single one, without exception. Not to mention doubling the
minimum size of the system partition in mid-stream.

So I've relaxed a bit starting with Windows 7 Starter (on an HP Mini),
Windows 8.1 (on the HP Envy, which now runs Windows 10), and Windows
10 (on the HP Pavillion).

Relaxing on having everything the way I like it allows me to focus
much more on the things I bought the computers for.

And it /is/ nice to be running an OS that people actually write
software for!
Post by Andi.B
Not
someone at Redmond decided in his very limited wisdom. On the other hand win has some
really cool features I miss on OS/2. One is changing resolution without reboot.
Yes, I am reminded of this every time Win 10 updates /itself/ and I
have to rejoin/reconfigure the Homegroup, confirm /each and every/
extension-application pairing I have made because it isn't what
Microsoft wants, and reset each and every Explorer window to /my/
preferred display option.

So, to some extent, I am still fighting the "my way" fight. I just try
to avoid the really nasty stuff (such as editing the Registry)
whenever possible.
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."
Paul S. Person
2017-11-27 17:22:17 UTC
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Post by Andi.B
Post by Frank Beythien
pmfont=-font=10.Helv
Thanks. Changing to pmfont=-font="5.System VIO" changes the fonts of wd popup windows like
the 'File Open' or 'Options' dialog. Unfortunately not the interior of Source, Assembly or
CPU registers.
I realized this morning that I had not /tested/ the "Change Font"
option.

The good news is that it /does/ change the text in the Source,
Assembly, CPU registers, etc etc windows.

The bad news is that it does /not/ change the text in the title bars
or the dialog boxes.

Still, at least, if you decide to pursue this in OS/2, at least there
is some reason to believe implementing the "Change Font" mechanism for
OS/2 will, in fact, actually change the font you want to change.
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."
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